moxdmguy Posted August 5, 2010 Report Share Posted August 5, 2010 I picked up a Spikes dedicated upper with a YHM free float hand guard and a Spikes fake can. I put the upper on my spikes lower. I have only ran about 200 rounds through it so far. It is grouping very well with a red dot sight at about 30 yards. I am having issues with failure to extract, about 1 to 2 in every 26 round mag. I am going to try some different ammo and also contact spikes to try and troubleshoot the issue. Here are a few pictures. I would be interested to hear from anyone else that has this upper and get any tips or tricks you may have.[img width=800 height=364]http://i604.photobucket.com/albums/tt126/MOXDMGUY/IMG_1437.jpg[img width=800 height=352]http://i604.photobucket.com/albums/tt126/MOXDMGUY/IMG_1436.jpg[img width=800 height=600]http://i604.photobucket.com/albums/tt126/MOXDMGUY/IMG_1439.jpg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Jones Posted August 5, 2010 Report Share Posted August 5, 2010 I don't have one and have yet to even see one personally; but I've seen in a couple of .22 forums where polishing the feed ramp and ensuring the lug recesses are free of buildup. Some have mentioned shining up the "feed ramp" and lips on the magazines as well. These were tips for nearly any AR22 I've seen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imschur Posted August 5, 2010 Report Share Posted August 5, 2010 What ammo are you using? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moxdmguy Posted August 5, 2010 Author Report Share Posted August 5, 2010 I am using the Federal Match bulk pack. I am going to pick up some of the standard bulk pack ammo tomorrow. After doing some reading it is my understanding that ammo is used by spikes when tuning the ammo. I have also learned that a rounded hammer and lighter trigger springs in the lower will make a difference in the cycling of the upper too. In addition, I found this on another forum: (I am going to try trimming the spring as recommended and hopefully my issue will be solved)This is a Dedicated thread for tuning the ST-22 Dedicated upper and ST-22 Drop-in Conversion. Both bolts are the same except for the chamber adapter. Tuning is accomplished the same way for either of them. This thread is for Semi-Auto ONLY.Post your Cycling Issues or Tuning Questions here. Ill answer them and walk you through the process step by step.If you have any Issues read and try the things below before posting here.Don't fix it if its NOT broken!! If it runs good leave it alone! Its a 22LR so don't expect it to be as reliable as your SHTF carbine!Ill start off by saying keep your ST-22 clean! I know its fun but your ST-22 gets dirty fast and it doesn't take long to run through 550rds! I would recommend cleaning it Every 500-1000rds.The ST-22 requires Very little if any lube at all. 1 drop of oil on each rail is plenty it goes a long way. Soaking it down with lube will only make things worse. Just remember Oil+22LR=Gunk/Mud.Make sure the bolt is Not contacting your bolt catch or feed lips on your magazine.Make sure your hammer isn't dragging on the bolt. The DPMS (De-milled M16) or anything without a notched hammer face function the best with the ST-22.Make sure your running good plated ammo. There is a lot of bad 22 ammo out there and it varies from Lot/Batch to Lot/Batch. If your gun is not running try a different Lot/Batch of ammo and see if the problem goes away. If it just stop shooting and cycling properly for no reason try different ammo.Make sure your charging handle isn't stopping your bolt from closing all the way. Sometimes charging handles have a stiff latch.If your ST-22 has feeding issues--Insert a round by hand and make sure your ammo is cambering freely.-Make sure your not running over sized or out of spec ammo like the Remington stuff.-Waxy ammo will also cause feeding issues.-Make sure there isn't a burr on the chamber edge. The edge of your chamber should have a slight bevel on it to assist in feeding.-Make sure the face of your bolt and chamber is clean.-Make sure your recoil spring isn't to short.-Make sure your magazine is in good working order.-Make sure your magazine is not sitting to low in the magwell.-Make sure the charging handle isn't to hard to latch.-Make sure your firing pin isn't stuck forward.-In most cases polishing the chamber will make feeding more reliable!If your ST-22 has cycling issues--The most common issue is where the spent casing is getting stuck upward between the bolt and charging handle or sideways between the bolt and chamber. Sometimes it will fire the first round, chamber the second round and when you pull the trigger nothing happens. What's happening is the bolt isn't going back far enough or fast enough to eject properly or re-cock the hammer back.-The shorter the barrel the harder its going to be to tune it. Shorter barrels (Anything 12" or shorter) lacks back pressure which blow back systems like the ST-22 need to function. Suppressors are your friend on short barrel setups. Sub-Sonic or weak ammo is going to be a challenge!-Make sure your ammo is Not underpowered before tuning anything!-Its always a good idea to have a spare recoil spring before you start cutting anything! Remember Measure twice, cut once.-Your recoil spring is probably a little too stiff for your application, Start by trimming 1/4" (or 3 coils) off of your recoil spring.-Shoot it again and see if the problem goes away. If not trim another 1/4" (or 3 coils). and so on..-You do Not want to trim the recoil spring any shorter than 7.25" OAL we usually ship them around 8 3/8"-9" long. If your down to 7.25" and it still has issues then something else is wrong please contact me for further assistance.-Also check to make sure your hammer spring isn't to stiff. Sense your bolt has to cock the hammer back with each round that's fired your hammer spring acts as if its a recoil spring or recoil system.-In some cases its a good idea to run a lighter hammer spring to keep the recoil spring stiffer. The longer you can run your recoil spring the better. I recommend the springs from JP Enterprise.-Make sure your Hammer pin isn't broken!If your ST-22 has light primer strikes--Check your ammo.-Make sure your hammer spring is not to light. Some reduce power hammer springs are to light. I would not go any lighter than a 3.5lb-4lb spring like the one sold from JP Enterprise-Make sure your firing pin is moving freely and not stuck. If it feels like its hard to move you may want to consider removing it to clean the firing pin and the firing pin cavity in the bolt.-Make sure your firing pin isn't broken. The ST-22 is tough but it can happen.-The ST-22 Doesn't require a buffer and spring but it may cure lite primer strike issues.If your ST-22 shoots more than 1 round at a time--Do NOT continue to shoot it! If it fires more than 1 round at a time its considered an Illegal machine gun! What's happening is your bolt is not going back far enough to cock the hammer, the hammer is following the bolt back home and slam firing.-Your recoil spring may be to stiff.-Your ammo may be to weak.-Your hammer spring may be to stiff, Not all Mil-Spec hammer springs are the same.-Make sure your Hammer pin isn't broken!If your ST-22 fires out of battery--Make sure your bolt is closing all the way especially on the first round when it has the resistance of the charging handle latch.-Make sure your chamber is clean.-Insert a round by hand and make sure your ammo is cambering all the way. Some over sized rounds don't chamber all the way.-Make sure your recoil spring is not to weak or wore out.Ill Finish off by saying The recoil spring, ammo, and keeping it clean are 3 HUGE deciding factors if your ST-22 is going to run properly or not.That's all for now. If I can think of anything else Ill add to it. Hopefully you guys find this information useful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moxdmguy Posted August 5, 2010 Author Report Share Posted August 5, 2010 I don't have one and have yet to even see one personally; but I've seen in a couple of .22 forums where polishing the feed ramp and ensuring the lug recesses are free of buildup. Some have mentioned shining up the "feed ramp" and lips on the magazines as well. These were tips for nearly any AR22 I've seen.Thank you for the tips Mr. Jones. I will try doing both. The feed lips on the mag do seem a little rough. I am not having any issues with Failure to Feed, only Failure to Extract, but a little polishing in those areas isnt a bad idea anyway. Thanks again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imschur Posted August 5, 2010 Report Share Posted August 5, 2010 good post man :thumb: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moxdmguy Posted August 5, 2010 Author Report Share Posted August 5, 2010 good post man :thumb:Thanks man. I can't take much credit for it though, mostly just sharing information from another forum. I ordered up some lighter trigger springs. I will report back in a few days after I have made the tweaks and let everyone know how the ST-22 is operating. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imschur Posted August 5, 2010 Report Share Posted August 5, 2010 Awesome, thats a sweet looking rifle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Jones Posted August 5, 2010 Report Share Posted August 5, 2010 Thank you for the tips Mr. Jones. I will try doing both. The feed lips on the mag do seem a little rough. I am not having any issues with Failure to Feed, only Failure to Extract, but a little polishing in those areas isnt a bad idea anyway. Thanks again.I misread FTE for FTL earlier :-[ The only common thing I know to cause FTE for .22 is underpowered ammo not cycling the bolt properly. The other long info post discusses that in depth.I also read a post where someone put a micrometer on several brands of ammo and found that shell casings varied widely in diameter. May have something to do with it as well, but that post was more about FTF issues as well.Still, your fail rate is fairly low. Very sharp looking rifle; has that "spec-ops" feel about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imschur Posted August 5, 2010 Report Share Posted August 5, 2010 Years ago I had a box of Winchester .22's that the extractors on my Ar-15 .22conv and Smith 41 were unable to grab Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moxdmguy Posted August 6, 2010 Author Report Share Posted August 6, 2010 Based on the reading I did on various forums and feedback from Tom at Spikes, I tried the cheap federal bulk ammo in the blue box. I did not make any other changes, other than a good cleaning prior to shooting. I went through three 26 round mags and had zero issues!This is the first time I have had better luck with the cheap federal vs. the match ammo I ran in my Colt and my 10/22s. I must say that spikes customer service is very good. I emailed them last night and they promptly responded a few minutes later. After I determined the ammo was the issue I proceeded to do the "15 minute trigget job" on my stick AR trigger group. Things are much more crisp and the trigger pull is much lighter. I am very pleased with this setup now and the savings in ammo will make things even better. Thanks for everyone's input and suggestions. As I get things tightened up a bit I will post some more pictures and range reports... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imschur Posted August 6, 2010 Report Share Posted August 6, 2010 that ammo just keeps coming out on top. Glad you got it sorted out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moxdmguy Posted September 16, 2010 Author Report Share Posted September 16, 2010 Well as you can tell from above I deleted some old pics of my ST-22. I made a few more mods and pretty much have it the way I want it now with the only exception being is I want a rail mounted swivel for a 2PT sling. Just thought I would share some new pics. If I could figure out how to delete the old ones above I would, maybe a mod could help me out?[img width=800 height=395]http://i604.photobucket.com/albums/tt126/MOXDMGUY/IMG_1489.jpg[img width=800 height=379]http://i604.photobucket.com/albums/tt126/MOXDMGUY/IMG_1488.jpg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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