Hammer Strut mod

[Kilibreaux]

Well, the GSG, like many firearms has strengths and weaknesses.  For example, the 10/22 is functionally reliable out of the box, yet with aftermarket mags not so good.  The GSG on the other hand, has out of the box issues, but has a VERY reliable magazine system.

I've never had any reservation about grabbing a dremel or a file and going to work on a firearm.  I have over 35 years of competition shooting, modification, and outright fabrication of major and minor firearms components.  The GSG is a GREAT foundation that only needs a bit of tweaking here and there to make it part of a serious survival arsenal.

[Popcop45]

Well there is only one thing left to say; Sweeeeeet modification!!! i just took her out to the range today.

Not only does the trigger feel smoother (all the polishing paid off) but the over all functioning and cycling of the action feels so much better as well. The casings were found around 17 to 20 feet from where I was shooting.

Thanks to you Kilibreaux, all the time money and effort I put into my SEF lower has paid off!

Can't wait to take her out again tomorrow!

[dizzny1]

The firing pin block...  or lock you said was not needed, do you have a pic of this? I am having a hard time trying to figure out exactly what part this is, also you said this:

That giant firing pin release plate on the left side....once the firing pin lock is tossed out it not only isn't needed but it creates drag on the bolt...grind it down and keep only the bottom portion that operates the trigger return.

What is this plate, and how much needs to be grinded off in the event that the firing pin block is removed?

[Kilibreaux]

If you look at the GSG-5 exploded view - which I think you can find on this website (if not I can email it to you), you will see the bolt is contained within the "Breech Body" which is the housing that slides out of the rear of the receiver during takedown.  Without disassembling the "Breech Bolt Carrier" Parts 91 and 92 of the diagram, one cannot easily visualize the "Firing Pin Safety" (part 95).

To disassemble the Breech Bolt Carrier you will need a small Torx driver, I think I bought on at Home Depot for about $7 that has all the needed Torx sizes...they're small.  After removing all the torx screws you can insert a finger inside the Breech Bolt Carrier and begin to work the two halves apart.  As it separates be alert that one or both recoil springs may fly away, but they're fairly large and easy to see.  At this point observe the recoil springs are larger on one end than the other....the big end always goes to the rear when you reassemble.

With the Bolt Carrier apart and springs out you can slide the bolt back and lift it out.  Looking at the LEFT side you will see a large ball-shape...this is the Firing Pin Safety and is comprised of the cylindrical pin and a spring.  To remove it you will first need to use your tiny Torx driver to remove the firing pin Retainer Set Screw (part 96) which then allows you to let the Firing Pin Retainer Pin (part 10) drop free (you will have to press in on the firing pin to relieve pressure on it).

After that the firing pin will eject from the rear under the force of the Firing Pin Spring (part 101) - this is the monster spring I've mentioned before.  As the firing pin comes out the firing pin safety will pop free under spring pressure, and yes it will also fly somewhere if you're not looking.  If you choose to leave it out you leave out nothing that the gun will miss, and nothing that will make the gun one iota less "safe" than it was before.  That firing pin "return" spring is more than ample to prevent any possible thought of a slam fire.  Also, the firing pin safety is released when the trigger is pulled and one might presume it's point of function is to prevent firing if the hammer were to accidentally jump off the cocked notch....except when the trigger is NOT pulled the trigger bar interposes itself under the sear housing (arm) so that it cannot physically move out from engagement with the hammer notch.  Basically the only way the hammer can "jump the notch" is some form of catastrophic parts disintegration - yeah, could happen, but not as statistically probable as being hit by a meteorite, and that's pretty rare.

Now, when one PULLS the trigger, the presumption must shift toward the notion they intend that the gun fire in which case not having the firing pin safety is of no consequence.

During cycling, since the trigger is held back the "Firing Pin Safety Lever" (part 49), otherwise known as "that giant plate" is also held fully forward and holds the firing pin safety in a depressed orientation throughout bolt cycling.

Now, that giant plate...part 49 on the diagram.  It serves the function of releasing the firing pin safety as well as trigger return, oh and the function of "confusion" of precisely WHAT it does to thwart would-be you know whaters.

Because the firing pin safety rides along the face of this plate during operation it must of necessity apply drag to the bolt.  Also the bolt body proper may, can, might make contact with the plate during operation and this adds more drag.  Drag is drag however small and in the .22LR every little bit hurts.  I noticed on my bolt clear signs of the plate rubbing.  Basically the "cure" is to grab your trusty dremel and pair down the upper portion of the plate, taking it down to a point where its top edge lies below the bolt.  This is not hard, takes only a few minutes using a cut-off wheel, and does not even require disassembling the trigger group.  The part that is left still provides trigger return.

Unfortunately it's not so easy to toss that waste of time magazine safety located on the other side of the trigger group.  For that one...well, the SPRING will probably depart all by itself when you first slide the trigger unit out of the plastic lower housing, but then, to remove the actual "Magazine Safety" (part 45) you will need to crack the trigger housing.  Does it "hurt" to keep it...no.....but it means the magazine or a finger must be in place to depress it in order to fire.  In the unlikely chance you're in the middle of a tactical reload and a rabid squirrel rushes you because he heard your mag plop to the ground, you have that one round in the chamber you CAN snap off...might be small, but hey, it's a round you HAVE ready to fire versus being locked out.  Also if the mag were lost one could manually insert rounds and fire them normally without having to perform additional complex manipulations to reach inside the mag well and press the mag safety lever during firing.

These are really simple mods....the hammer strut mod is more complicated to be sure and re-cutting the sear to hammer notch angle is a job best reserved for an expert, but it WILL make the gun more "solid" and less dependent on a relatively weak spring to prevent doubles and triples.

BTW, look at the photos posted by Popcop in the this thread and you will see in the photograph of his lower unit the firing pin release lever (that giant plate) sticking up beside the hammer.

[SnakeWrangler]

Thanks Kilibreaux, just finish the strut mod on my gsg. I can now feel the tension from the hammer spring as I pull the bolt back. I believe that I still have an issue that should be addressed though; I am still seeing fire flash as I shoot. What could continue to cause this?

Now I have a question for all of you: What would cause the breach to stay open after you release the bolt? I checked and made sure the so called "mystery spring" was still in place. Its about to drive me insane.

[Popcop45]

Thanks Kilibreaux, just finish the strut mod on my gsg. I can now feel the tension from the hammer spring as I pull the bolt back. I believe that I still have an issue that should be addressed though; I am still seeing fire flash as I shoot. What could continue to cause this?

Now I have a question for all of you: What would cause the breach to stay open after you release the bolt? I checked and made sure the so called "mystery spring" was still in place. Its about to drive me insane.

Is that with the magazine in or out? Take pics and submit as much as you can-we'll walk you through.

[Popcop45]

Shot another hundred flawless rapid fire rounds yesterday. It's amazing how clean my GSG stays with CCI Mini Mags. You could barley tell the guns' been fired. Polishing the feed ramp helped tremendously as well.  :grin:

[SnakeWrangler]

It happens with the mag in and out. it just wont release. I thought that I had lost that spring at first but I looked through the breach I could clearly see the spring was in its rightful place.I just put 2 mag through it, about 5 minutes ago right after I got home, and it was fine until the second mag emputied. Now its held in place. I will take pics and post as soon as I find my camera.

I gun is cleaner than before making the strut mod, but I still notice there is a flame at the breach when shooting. Any ideas on it?

[Popcop45]

The spring may be in but the bolt stop may not be seated properly. Pull your breech out and check the bolt stop to make sure it is properly seated on the breech block. What brand ammo are you using?

[SnakeWrangler]

I have used everything from CCI, Federal, Winchester, Remmington. Figured out that remmington isnt the route to go, as with my other .22''s, remmington ammo just doent agree with it. Currently its Winchester with copper jackets like Federal. I have had the issue with the bolt stop just by pulling the bolt back and releasing it though. I notcied that there are some scratches on the bolt stop that I believe are from the rivot that holds the ejector (part 93 in the exploded view). Would polishing the bolt-stop help the situation?

Kilibreaux, how far down did you cut your Firing pin safety lever?

[SnakeWrangler]

Here are the pics. In the second I had modified the strut, but forgot the mag safety and the firing pin safety plate. third is after making the adjustmenst i forgot.

The last picture happend today, but I think its related to a previous mod that I made because of light strikes. I cut a few links out of the "monster" firing pin spring and did a little work on the pin itself. After cleaning and inspecting everything from the blast, which scareed the **** out of me, I put it back together and ran 200 rds through it with no trouble.

[Kilibreaux]

This is a hard one to analyze without visualizing the parts.  The Breech Bolt Carrier has the ejector riveted in place and if this has worked loose it could be causing the bolt to hang intermittently.  The ejector should be anchored solidly so if there is any detectable play the rivets have failed and need to be replaced.

IF you have already done some work on your Firing Pin Safety release lever - as in grinding it down a bit, but not far enough, then what you very likely are experiencing is a hang-up caused by a small ledge on the outside left rear corner of the bolt bumping into the release lever.  See, the release lever normally runs right beside the left side of the bolt and presses the Firing Pin Safety button, but outside of this track is a small lug that would normally not cause ANY interference, but if the release lever has been reshaped but still has a portion above the bottom edge of this bolt lug, then it WILL catch the bolt and hold it, or stall it enough to suck the reciprocating energy out.

The Firing Pin Release lever needs to be ground down BELOW the level of the bolt ALL THE WAY along it's upper edge if one desires to remove it's potential friction from the equation.  So basically you can grind the release lever (plate) all the way down to just a bit higher than the trigger group housing.

The bolt hold open is obvious and should be easy to spot.  It should release when you draw the cocking handle back with no magazine in place, or with a loaded magazine in place.  It certainly could "snag" the bolt just enough to hold it open if something is misaligned or crudded up.  The channel in which the bolt hold open spring resides is an ideal receptacle for debris and enough could EASILY get into the space between the Bolt Carrier and receiver interior to induce sluggish action.  Also it's possible the spring could have been damaged during reassembly and that portion not visible.

If you're using a "wet" oil you might want to consider trying a dry lube which doesn't attract that coarse grit that builds up after firing a couple of magazines.  Also, grab a can of WD-40 and reach in there with the little straw and spritz into that spring channel (gun assembled) and see what happens.  But....the simplest thing to start with is reach in through the mag well and feel the little tab that is the magazine contact for the bolt hold open and press it up...feel whether it is gritty, or binding, then release it and it should snap downward without delay.  If it does anything BUT move with absolute freedom and spring return that's probably where the problem is.

OH....if you've removed and reinstalled the bolt's recoil springs backwards - either one or both, THAT could lead to bolt binding as well.

Other than the Firing Pin Safety release lever there is nothing in the trigger group that would interfere with the bolt's movement.

If none of this puts you on track, start looking at the bolt's recoil guide rods for straightness and tightness.  Also check the tightness of the bolt cover - that black "cap" that screws onto the top of the bolt proper (3 torx screws) and basically holds the firing pin and firing pin monster return spring in place.  Perhaps that is loose and is snagging something.

Check the cocking rod....the chromed rod riding in the upper portion of the receiver.  The cocking handle and it's short section of rod push the longer, internal rod back during the action of cocking.  This rod indexes against the upper front surface of that bolt "cap" piece I mentioned, and perhaps there is something misaligned there.  Again, blown back grit gets everywhere inside the GSG and considering how many zillion shots people tend to run through them in one session a lot of debris can get pushed into some critical tolerance areas.

Doing a complete teardown on the GSG between shooting sessions is a PITA and to be avoided as it also increases the likelihood of parts loss, excess parts wear, and potential reassembly issues.  The best thing is to remove the plastic parts, pull the trigger housing and bolt carrier group, then get liberal with a spray solvent such as WD-40 - or anything more expensive and purpose built for guns in general or the GSG in particular.  Spray solvent can "hose out" all the tiny spaces a lot faster with excellent results.

OH...check your bolt...specifically that black "cap" that fits on top....if high pressure vented to the rear and went between that piece and the bolt body it could have caused a deformation or even small fracture that is binding inside.

Like I said it's kind of hard to diagnose your problem without seeing your parts, but these are some ideas that come to mind.

[SnakeWrangler]

I did take the time to adress the bolt stop issue I was having while the gun was disasembled. I polished the bolt stop where it looked like the rivot from the ejector was rubbing. This solved my intitial problem and created one that I can live with; now the bolt stop doesnt work at all.  I can live with that thanks to having the slot on the exterior to hold the cocking handle. Well gonna see how many more rounds it will take and will be back later with report.

[Kilibreaux]

That last picture is too blurry to really see anything valuable.  I can see the bolt carrier group is out and a shell is in the chamber but can't make out details.

Modding the firing pin spring would have no affect on the bolt hanging open.

Speaking of light strikes, notice how thick the firing pin tip is....a bit of CAREFUL stone work on either side can remove a few thousandths and placing a TINY radius on those edges also serves to narrow the firing pin's impact surface making a deeper dent in the case.  remember, firing pins are cheap ($5 from ATI) so you can afford to play with re-profiling the nose and if it makes things worse, toss that one, grab a new one and see what works.  I've noticed in recent years a lot of firing pins are coming much wider and more blunt than used to be the case.

[Kilibreaux]

Here are the pics. In the second I had modified the strut, but forgot the mag safety and the firing pin safety plate. third is after making the adjustmenst i forgot.

The last picture happend today, but I think its related to a previous mod that I made because of light strikes. I cut a few links out of the "monster" firing pin spring and did a little work on the pin itself. After cleaning and inspecting everything from the blast, which scareed the **** out of me, I put it back together and ran 200 rds through it with no trouble.

Uh, what "blast?"

[SnakeWrangler]

Problem solved, guess that the bolt stop just needed a little oil.

As for the last set of pics posted, the round explded in the chamber, not sure what caused it, here are a few more pics of it. Just got through running 500 more rounds with no problems. Reckon that the exploded round was just a freak?

[imschur]

Guys Kilibreaux may make this look and sound easy but without a thorough understanding of a weapons mechanics it's real easy to get yourself in trouble, hurt or both.

SnakeWrangler, while I have no experience working on the firing mechanism of this rifle it looks to me like the round was fired without being fully chambered or the bolt all the way home. Either condition results in an unsupported case and a subsequent rupture.

Somethings wrong.

Ill let this thread go a bit longer but guys please exercise caution when modifying any firearm without proper training.

Disclaimer: This thread is for informational purposes and you are performing these modifications at your own personal risk and are not condoned or encouraged by the operators of this site.

[SnakeWrangler]

I noticed what you were saying Kilibreaux, I saw where it was rubbing on that plate and removed the rest of it. I have put roughly 750 rounds through the GSG today after that incident and everything is now running smooth. The bolt stop has not hung since a little oil was added.

Thanks again for the help Kilibreaux and Popcop45

[Popcop45]

Nice work on the hammer SnakeWrangler. Here is a little treat for you guys...

THE FOLLOWING IS A TACTICAL22.net EXCLUSIVE.

Now I shall reveal my polishing method. I can not stress enough, the improvement of the action when certain parts are polished and buffed out

This is for the experienced armorer. Do not attempt if you lack any armorer skills.

The following tools and materials needed:

Dremel tool

dremel 414 polishing bits x2 (may use more)

Ryobi white rouge buffing compound (H) 2-5 microns

Flitz metal polish

a cotton rag (i used old t-shirt)

WARNING: All parts need to be removed prior to being polished. Polish parts AWAY from your other parts--compound will splatter! Wear safety goggles and keep mouth closed or wear a dust mask.

Parts I polished:

Hammer ( contact surfaces)

Hammer Strut ( where the srtut contacts the hammer)

Sear -contact points (you need a punch to remove the pin)

Bottom of breech bolt (where the breech contacts the hammer for engagement.

Use one buffing wheel for each compound.

Start with ryobi and buff out with cotton rag.

Make sure the part is free of any ryobi residue before applying the Flitz polish.

Note: If you run the dremel at high speed 45 seconds should suffice. On low, over 1 minute.

After the Flitz you will see the part you polished looks like jewelry, and is the smoothest thing your fingers have ever touch.

Put your parts back together and take it out for a test.

[SnakeWrangler]

The polishing compound I used came with a dremel  polishing set and it did take a little while to do the polishing. I will diffinately look into the ryobi and flitz compounds. sounds like it would a much better and quicker job.

I do have another question for yall; after removing the mag safety lever and spring did yall add anything to fill the vacant space where it rested? I noticed that there was a rattle in the trigger group. After examining I saw where the washer behind the hammer had a little play because the mag safety lever was removed. If you look at the mag safety lever you should be able to see where that washer was rubbing againist it. I added a small waher that I had. I am thinking about cutting part of the lever down and securing it in there. What have yall done about it?

[imschur]

Regarding the polishing. That can become addictive on firearms once you get used to the results. Brownells sells big sticks of the compounds (and Flitz) in various grits. I took a 3600 rpm dc motor and Dc drive and bade a fixture with two bearings and a shaft and made a two wheel buffer out of it. I used it for polishing gun parts and blades on my woodworking tools. The cool thing about the DC was variable speed and constant torque

Anyhow we also kicked around polishing a little here. The MAAS I refer to in the first post is used to polish fine instruments like the measuring surfaces of micrometers. It excels as the last step in a mirror finish.  I even polish bullet casings for photographs. I cant recommend the MAAS stuff enough.

[Popcop45]

The polishing compound I used came with a dremel  polishing set and it did take a little while to do the polishing. I will diffinately look into the ryobi and flitz compounds. sounds like it would a much better and quicker job.

I do have another question for yall; after removing the mag safety lever and spring did yall add anything to fill the vacant space where it rested? I noticed that there was a rattle in the trigger group. After examining I saw where the washer behind the hammer had a little play because the mag safety lever was removed. If you look at the mag safety lever you should be able to see where that washer was rubbing againist it. I added a small waher that I had. I am thinking about cutting part of the lever down and securing it in there. What have yall done about it?

You should not have a rattle. The magazine safety lever rested on a detention in the trigger plate only. Check your trigger assembly again. I wouldn't add anything in there that wasn't OEM.  Compare it to the ones here. Notice there are no marks on this lever.

[edgecrusher]

ok, i'm not an armorer, nor do i feel i even should attempt any of this, i am more of the bolt on/drop in modifier. i do,however, want my gsg5 to run, not only better, but at it's maximum. my first post i had was about a bolt overrun issue where it will jam a round into the feed ramps.it doesn't happen all the time and i've tried different ammo and new mags. i'm out of ideas, i'm wondering what it would cost to have this hammer strut mod done and my issue looked at and who could do it. i like the gsg5, alot, and would love to see the difference. also, my rifle runs real dirty. is this typical? it's a gen 1 i believe and i mostly shoot federal game shock high velocity. thanks for any feedback. :thumb:

[Popcop45]

Edgecrusher, this mod is not as difficult as all these back and forth post may make it seem. However, if you feel you are not up to it don't try it. The good part is, if you ever feel you want to give it a try, purchase a hammer, and a hammer strut from ATI customer service, and start dremeling. If you mess up, you can always put the original parts back.

As for the feeding issues you stated, are they happening with different magazines as well? Have you tried the polishing of the chamber we've recommended?

[edgecrusher]

Currently the rifle is unmodified, and it happening with all mags, even new out of the box. i am currently dremel-less. it happens at an unpredictable rate so i don't think it's a feed issue from the magazine. sometimes i can get one or two full mags to go and and the same mags might jam the cartridge one  or two times each in the next feed cycle. it stumps me, and i will try all things i can do without going over my head. thanks and keep em coming  :thumb: