United Nations

[Dangermouse]

Fellow shooters,

I first saw this video on You Tube last month and discussed its contents on a forum closer to home.

The general consensus was that it was all nonsense and that the U.S.A. N.R.A. would never let it happen.

I then read this article in Target Shooter which also relates to what the UN is up to - by the back door. I would like to make sure that you are all aware and ask if you have read anything similar and can pass on the information.

I know some areas attack military looking firearms; it would be a shame to get our Tactical .22’s banned by a bunch of people that no one voted for.

5.56 and 7.62mm ‘Outlawed’

A perennial question is about the difference if

any between 7.62X51mm and .308 Winchester (or

5.45X45mm and .223 Remington). And while there are

small differences primarily in the chamber and barrel

throat forms, they are so nearly indistinguishable that

the UK national police firearms licensing computer uses

both terminologies together either side of an oblique to

avoid problems if an FAC variation is for one, but the

firearm is marked and proof-tested for the other. This

applies particularly to British and Commonwealth TR

(‘Target Rifle’) rifles that were classed as 7.62mm until

recently, although current builds or recently rebarrelled

examples now bear the .308 Winchester description.

None of this would be of any great import if it weren’t

for the United Nations having started a crusade against

international movements of military smallarms and

ammunition except on a government to government

basis. The problem is that 5.56 and 7.62mm are

classified as ‘military’ period, no matter that it’s a

single-shot target rifle and your pride and joy. This is

a particular problem for anybody travelling across

international boundaries as an early result has been

airlines, through their international regulator IATA,

accepting these rules and refusing to carry anything

so marked or documented, even if on a dual basis as

in ‘7.62mm / .308 Winchester’. The next worry is that

as countries sign up to the various UN accords on this

issue, we’ll suddenly discover that somebody has done

this for the UK and unwittingly made ownership of

every .308 Win rifle in the country illegal as our FACs

invariable use the dual title in listing the weapons

held. In any event ICFRA, the international target

shooting body which regulates fullbore rifle including our

‘Target Rifle’ and F-Class, has deleted all reference to the

metric versions of the two cartridges in its rules and

documentation, and I imagine that applies to our NRA

too.

Firearms law researcher and writer Colin Greenwood

has been investigating this UN process and his

findings must be deeply unsettling for all sporting

and recreational firearms users. The sub-committees

tasked with producing reports and recommendations

that are often accepted by the UN with little or no

debate are secretive, refusing to disclose their

membership or the remits they are working to. They

will not divulge the basis of ‘facts’ contained in their

reports, how research was carried out and where, who

was interviewed and so on. One fact that is clear

are that they will NOT make any distinction between

civilian sporting arms, (even shotguns), and military

weapons, and that they believe that arms ownership

is a bad thing per se. Greenwood is convinced that

this is a movement towards international civilian arms

control via the back door under the cloak of keeping AKs

and RPGs out of the hands of African child soldiers or

guerrillas.

Things may get ‘worse’ too in that the proposed

conventions seek to ban the manufacture of arms

and ammunition of any type and any calibre, except

by government licensed concerns which must be

closely regulated. Quite right too you might think, but

remember that your gunsmith is an ‘arms constructor’,

and you are an ‘ammunition manufacturer’ if you

handload. Until now, the US government has been

a bastion against this sort of undemocratic backdoor

control by routinely telling the UN to naff off! Not so now

under Barak Obama, the State Department allegedly

signalling a change of policy here, its first move being

to announce that export licenses will not be issued for

any barrel chambered for 5.56 or 7.62 NATO destined

for a commercial end-user.

Don’t try and take anything marked 7.62mm

abroad or you’ll be regarded as an international

arms smugglerâ€.

[asmurff]

I know the NRA watches this at the UN closely and has status as a "Non-Governmental Organization" which give them the ability and right to monitor internal debate and have access to UN meetings that are closed to the general public, and is able to distribute informational materials to participants in UN activities.

Plus even if the Obama adminstration would agree to a UN treaty it still has to be passed by our Senate. Also I believe there is a law that prevents foreign treaties from making any changes to the Constitution or its amendments.

[imschur]

Its tough to judge some of this.

While they do try very hard to disarm us continuously here the grand plan isnt as easy to implement  as folks would like. For one the US rakes in a lot of cash through arms in multiple channels. Are they willing to shoot themselves in the foot? Regardless of whats said publicly this is big business worth a lot of money.

The import export stuff is a little easier for them to play with the rules. There seems to be changes back and forth with every administration change.

I wouldnt be surprised if the pick on a smaller target like FN's 5.7.

There was recently a ban here on selling once fired military brass to civilians. I think the ban lasted a week.

Ill wander a way off topic here

A couple things I think right now.

Obama wont go crazy about guns unless he gets a second term. At this point I dont think they want to risk any democratic seats. Theres no cushion and guns and abortion can be life and death for a politician. Many politicians do fear the NRA voters.

Something that may not be clear to many who dont live in the US. These wacky national laws are mostly generated by the big city politicians. Rural America for the most part thinks a little different. Unfortunately those cities based on population get the most votes in the house and senate. It skews the balance of power for the country.

Look at a state like New York. They have two sets of rules. One for NYC and one for the rest of NY. Lately much to the upstate sportsman and shooters they have been trying to expend the NYC laws for the rest of the state.

Now there is some big divisions among gun owners here.

Many rural folks and hunters still dont get the assault weapon thing. They believe what they see on TV and hear on the news. Just because they are hunters doesnt mean they are enthusiasts. They believe AR-15's are machine guns or are just evil weapons designed for killing. They also may not get the concealed carry thing. Not much murder, robbery and mugging in the Adirondacks of NY. I had this very conversation at a local tavern/restaurant near the border of NY and Canada. These guys also do not believe anything the govt will do will affect there deer rifles or bird guns.

Politicians exploit this, divide and conquer. Kudos to Remington for the Camo AR's and marketing them for hunting. Same goes for these tactical 22's. All will help bridge the gap.

NRA - many shooters wont join or only join briefly. Sometimes they appear too radical (based on whats heard on the news) other times its because the NRA will drive you nuts begging for money at the same time time sending you stuff like calendars or dvd's you never asked for. Guys feel like there money is wasted on these mailings and the NRA should not send this stuff and save money. To those guys I say if this model did not work they would not do it. They need to remember the NRA is a non profit and different rules apply then to a for profit organization. Just ignore the mailings.

The NRA will fight hard but American shooters need to unite and show their support by voting in elections and financially supporting the NRA. They arent perfect but they are all we have.

[asmurff]

Exactly, I know the NRA and other 2nd Amendment Rights groups have really been stressing that all gun owners are in this together. They have been even teaming up groups supporting other threatened rights i.e. Freedom of Speech and state rights.

The black gun becoming more acceptable also has  a lot to do with the new generation of GIs coming home and wanting guns they know, just like our dads and grandfathers did after WWII and Korea.

I think the biggest thing is more and more of the silent majority have decided not to be silent anymore as witness by the Tea Party, I wonder it some day we'll have a polictical part called the Tea Party with its own canidates?

Having be stationed in Upstate New York I can tell you most people up there would like to remove NYC from the state. Your right the people in the City and the rest of state have entirely different outlooks on most things.

I personally think the UN has out lived its usefulness and have done nothing for the US in many years and we should show them the door.

[Microgunner]

Very clear thinking imschur.

[Dangermouse]

Obama Finds Legal Way Around The 2nd. Amendment and Uses It..

The Full Article Here

http://www.reuters.%20com/article/%20politicsNews/%20idUSTRE59E0Q9200%2091015'>http://www.reuters.%20com/article/%20politicsNews/%20idUSTRE59E0Q9200%2091015

Subject: Obama Takes First Step in Banning All Firearms

On Wednesday the Obama administration took its first major step in a plan to ban all firearms in the United States . The Obama administration intends to force gun control and a complete ban on all weapons for US citizens through the signing of international treaties with foreign nations. By signing international treaties on gun control, the Obama administration can use the US State Department to bypass the normal legislative process in Congress. Once the US Government signs these international treaties, all US citizens will be subject to those gun laws created by foreign governments. These are laws that have been developed and promoted by organizations such as the United Nations and individuals such as George Soros and Michael Bloomberg. The laws are designed and intended to lead to the complete ban and confiscation of all firearms.

The Obama administration is attempting to use tactics and methods of gun control that will inflict major damage to our 2nd Amendment before US citizens even understand what has happened. Obama can appear before the public and tell them that he does not intend to pursue any legislation (in the United States) that will lead to new gun control laws, while cloaked in secrecy, his Secretary of State, Hillary Clinton is committing the US to international treaties and foreign gun control laws. Does that mean Obama is telling the truth? What it means is that there will be no publicized gun control debates in the media or votes in Congress. We will wake up one morning and find that the United States has signed a treaty that prohibits firearm and ammunition manufacturers from selling to the public. We will wake up another morning and find that the US has signed a treaty that prohibits any transfer of firearm ownership. And then, we will wake up yet another morning and find that the US has signed a treaty that requires US citizens to deliver any firearm they own to the local government collection and destruction center or face imprisonment.

This is not a joke nor a false warning. As sure as government health care will be forced on us by the Obama administration through whatever means necessary, so will gun control.

Read the Article

U.S. reverses stance on treaty to regulate arms trade

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The United States reversed policy on Wednesday and said it would back launching talks on a treaty to regulate arms sales as long as the talks operated by consensus, a stance critics said gave every nation a veto.

The decision, announced in a statement released by the U.S. State Department, overturns the position of former President George W. Bush's administration, which had opposed such a treaty on the grounds that national controls were better.

The Full Article

http://www.reuters. com/article/ politicsNews/ idUSTRE59E0Q9200 91015

[Dangermouse]

Subject: Look what's on the 2010 tax form

More Freedom taken away and adding a NEW TAX…. Gun owners... look what's on the 2010 tax return .

VERIFIED - TRUE by snopes.com http://www.snopes.com/politics/guns/blairholt.asp

As if we didn't have enough to get upset about! If you have a gun, I hope it isn't registered!

It begins... more Freedom gone... the right to protect yourself and your family gone! Now ALL GUNS must be listed on your next (2010) tax return!

Senate Bill SB-2099 will require us to put on our 2009 1040 federal tax form all guns that you have or own. It will require fingerprints and a tax of $50 per gun.

This bill was introduced on February 24, 2009, by the Obama staff. BUT, this bill will only become public knowledge 30 days after the new law becomes effective!

This is an amendment to the Internal Revenue Act of 1986. This means that the Finance Committee has passed this without the Senate voting on it at all. Trust Obama? You must be kidding!

The full text of the IRS amendment is on the U.S. Senate homepage: www.senate.gov. You can find the bill by doing a search by the bill number, SB-2099. You know who to call; I strongly suggest you do. Please send a copy of this e-mail to every gun owner you know.

Text of H.R.45 as Introduced in House: Blair Holt's Firearm Licensing and Record of Sale Act of 2009: http://www.opencongress.org/bill/111-h45/text

Obama's Congress is now starting on the firearms confiscation bill.If it passes, gun owners will become criminals if you don't fully comply. It has begun... Whatever Obama's "Secret Master Plan" is... this is just the 'tip of the iceberg!'

Very Important for you to be aware of a new bill HR 45 introduced into the House. This is the Blair Holt Firearm Licensing & Record of Sale Act of 2009. Even gun shop owners didn't know about this because the government is trying to fly it under the radar a 'minor'IRS revision, and, as usual, the 'political' lawmakers did not read this bill before signing and approving it!

To find out about this - go to any government website and type in HR 45 or Google HR 45 Blair Holt Firearm Licensing & Record of Sales Act of 2009. You will get all the information.

Basically this would make it illegal to own a firearm - any rifle with a clip or ANY pistol unless:1) It is registered 2) You are fingerprinted 3) You supply a current Driver's License 4) You supply your Social Security number 5) You will submit to a physical & mental evaluation at any time of their choosing .

Each update change or ownership through private or public sale must be reported and costs $25.Failure to do so you automatically lose the right to own a firearm and are subject up to a year in jail. There is a child provision clause on page 16 section 305 stating a child-access provision. Gun must be locked and inaccessible to any child under 18. They would have the right to come and inspect that you are storing your gun safely away from accessibility to children and fine is punishable for up to 5 years in prison.

If you think this is a joke - go to the website and take your pick of many options to read this. It is long and lengthy. But, more and more people are becoming aware of this. Pass the word along. Any hunters in your family pass this along. This is just a "termite" approach to complete confiscation of guns and disarming of our society to the point- we have no defense - chip away a little here and there until the goal is accomplished before anyone realizes it. This is one to act on whether you own a gun or not..

Search Results - THOMAS (Library of Congress) http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c111:H.R.45>

H.R.45: Blair Holt's Firearm Licensing and Record of Sale Act of 2009 - U.S. Congress - OpenCongress http://www.opencongress.org/bill/111-h45/show>

H.R.45: Blair Holt's Firearm Licensing and Record of Sale Act of 2009

(GovTrack.us) http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd?bill=h111-45

Please.. copy and send this out to EVERYONE in the USA , whether you support the Right to Bear Arms or are for gun control. We all should have the right to choose.

[Longitude Zero]

I am not overly worried about the banning of firearms because of recent Supreme Court decisions that we have a constitutional right to guns.  The 2nd Amendment does not say we have a right to ammunition. 

The anti's have figured out that they will never get our guns but now they are going after the ammunition.  Without ammo our guns are nothing more than scrap.

[asmurff]

The one about taxes on guns, is a non-player. though introduced,it has no sponsors and hasn't been heard in a single committee.

Obama can sign all the treaties he wants he isn't the approving authority.

[Microgunner]

asmurff hit the nail on the head. Obama doesn't possess the authority to sign away our constitutional rights.