General question on target shooting/accuracy/consistancy

[techmike]

OK, here is the setup... known accurate rifle, consistent ammunition, bench rest, paper targets at 50 yards.  On any given day, shooting 3 shot strings, I can get 1 ragged hole, dime sized groups, quarter sized groups, or worse. (wind is not a variable)

Yet, when shooting the same bench, everything the same,.. but at a non-paper target, perfect shots. Example, today I could not get better than quarter sized groups on paper. Then I set a 12 ga hull on the ground under the target, and put the first round thru the center of the brass.

What am I doing wrong with paper targets???

TM :confused: :confused:

[lmao_37]

I can get 1 ragged hole, dime sized groups, quarter sized groups, or worse.

iam jealous with my gsg is has a piece that screws in  over the barrel and is about 1 inch long(fake muzzle to make it look like real AK) it makes it accurate to about 3 inches, but the more i shoot it the spread gets worse it as the rifle heats up  >:(, i cant see a way to remove the fake muzzle as the barrel ends under the front sight but i would like to get better groupings out of it  >:(

[imschur]

interesting, have you had your eyes checked lately? The human eye handles some colors better than others.

Your mind may also be handling targets differently shooting a bullseye versus center of a target.

Tape some coins or washers to the target and see how you do. What I often do is shoot at bullet hole in the target. Not expecting to hit the hole but rather getting a consistent group based on aiming at the first bullet hole

[asmurff]

I have trouble with targets where red is next to black probably for the color reasons. But orange a black are fine.

[lmao_37]

I have thought of a solution to my problem as i said the barrel is sleeved and then the front sight sits over the end of the barrel and then there is the fake muzzle so the real muzzle is 1 inch inside the sleeve/fake muzzle, i want to try to take a little off the sleeve and then fit a flash suppressor so it starts at the end of the barrel but iam not sure how to get this done right now as both ends off the sleeve are drilled and marked so it fits in to the body of the AK and the other end is drilled for the front sight, i think it will have better accuracy, the projectile leaves the end of the real muzzle in to a 10mm diameter sleeve by 20 mm long which i think is causing to go off slightly.

[techmike]

interesting, have you had your eyes checked lately? The human eye handles some colors better than others.

Your mind may also be handling targets differently shooting a bullseye versus center of a target.

Tape some coins or washers to the target and see how you do. What I often do is shoot at bullet hole in the target. Not expecting to hit the hole but rather getting a consistent group based on aiming at the first bullet hole

I have tried many different targets, shapes and colors. I seem to get the best results with the black circle on white paper. (Plus they are the cheapest to print) Unfortunately, my club only allows shooting at paper. I would love to shoot some reactive targets..... It's got to be something mental, but I don't know what.

TM :confused:

[imschur]

Have someone watch you, maybe they can spot something

[techmike]

Now that's a great idea! Actually, I will set up my vid camera on the next bench and critique myself. :thumb:

Thanks Drew!

TM

[techmike]

I have thought of a solution to my problem as i said the barrel is sleeved and then the front sight sits over the end of the barrel and then there is the fake muzzle so the real muzzle is 1 inch inside the sleeve/fake muzzle, i want to try to take a little off the sleeve and then fit a flash suppressor so it starts at the end of the barrel but iam not sure how to get this done right now as both ends off the sleeve are drilled and marked so it fits in to the body of the AK and the other end is drilled for the front sight, i think it will have better accuracy, the projectile leaves the end of the real muzzle in to a 10mm diameter sleeve by 20 mm long which i think is causing to go off slightly.

Having trouble visualizing this.. how about a pic?

TM

[asmurff]

Have someone watch you, maybe they can spot something

Now that is a good idea, Mike you can critque yourself and have it available to show others you trust.

[lmao_37]

Having trouble visualizing this.. how about a pic?

TM

ill get them done tommrow so you can see what i mean

[techmike]

Looking forward to seeing them!

TM

[techmike]

Going to the range Friday, with vid camera and a bolt action .22, just to see....

TM

[lmao_37]

Ill get the photo's done Monday (tomorrow i have a day off work) as its a pain to disassemble to forsight and ill have time and patients.

[Glowin]

I once got through to a competition final at the Bisley range using my Walther G22. I loved turning up with a semi auto sporting a red dot site with a smiley acid face sprayed on the dust cap. Everyone else there had proper looking bolt action rifles with scopes. And there's a reason for it. Which is why I bought a CZ 453 varmint and an MTC Viper 3-12x44 scope for competitions.

Have fun with the GSG and get a cheap little bolt action for competitive shooting I say. It olny cost me £500 for my setup and it'll knock the centre out of a target all day long. It makes you appreciate the semi autos more too as you shoot them for the enjoyment of shooting.

Just my opinion though.

Glowin

I know I could do with some taller mounts!

[bdavison]

This is pretty common, but it can be fixed.

The reason you are able to shoot accurately at non-paper targets has nothing to do with the fact that its paper vs non-paper.

It has everything to do with the SIZE of the target and how your brain processes information.

Your brain is focusing on the target as a whole, instead of a specific part of the target.

So all you have to do is re-train your brain.

There is an old saying in the competition shooting world. Which was taught to me by my coach early in my training.

"Aim small, miss small"

Basically, it works like this. You pick a specific small point on the paper as your target, instead of the whole target.

For example, instead of aiming at the bullseye, pick a specific spot inside the bullseye.

To help, take a sharpie, and put a black dot inside the bullseye, then you aim for that black dot. Remember "aim small, miss small".

Your groups will get tighter in the bullseye. Then afterwards, just dont use the sharpie, but continue to mentally see that little black dot as your target.

Eventually, coach took the sharpie away, and made me mentally picture the black dot...then he made me make the black dot smaller and smaller, until it was the size of a grain of sand.

My groups went from dime size, down to one-hole 5 round groups.

[techmike]

Thanks Bryon - I will give it shot!

TM

[bdavison]

Bear in mind that this does not just apply to paper targets....even other targets can be approached with the same mindset.

For instance,

Instead of aiming at the deer,  and start thinking "Im going to put my round in that tuft of hair sticking out".

Instead of aiming at the bowling pin, start thinking "Im going to put my round through the dot over the letter "i" in the Brunswick label.

Just by using this one simple thought process, you will be amazed at how much tighter your groups become.